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  • #2703
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
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    Thanks for your interest and feedback, Professor Hanson. Please post a link or share on your Profile or Activity the paper file when you publish! I would agree with your conclusions. To me father is biological and also can be relational. Dad is more relational not biological. I don’t like calling my social father dad but do it mostly out of obligation to him and others. Biological father is sometimes useful for clarification in conversations. A father is completely where you come from not who raised you. My dog is not my daughter. Whether or not my father abandoned me or rejects me or not doesn’t change his importance in my life beit in the form of loving presence or tragic void. Please keep in touch!

    #2693
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    wmdoran
    Participant

    Awesome! Glad we could help. Please keep us updated on your testing and search, and don’t forget to buy your tests through links here on DonorChildren so the site stays funded and free. The tests cost the same no matter where you buy them.

    #2684
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    wmdoran
    Participant

    That makes sense. You have to go at your own pace. Just don’t let my story scare you off. I have a worse case story. Many work out really well. The only way you’ll get family history is by finding your family. DNA and DonorChildren are your best bets for finding family/half-sibs. DNA is definitely a must. You never know you may have siblings waiting on those sites for you to join. There may be other sites out there purely for health analysis but I’m not familiar with them. If you find some please post them here to share. I hope you someday look for your family it is worth it despite any obstacles.

    #2682
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    wmdoran
    Participant

    @anthprof Thanks for your work Dr. Hanson:

    1) Yes, by email. He tried to manipulate me then cut off communication. He is very narcissistic and sociopathic. I would like a relationship with my father but unfortunately it likely won’t happen. Occasional emails to make new attempts. Disappointing. He doesn’t give a shit about me. I was a $50 check to him to pay for medical school and his sports car and feed his superiority complex.

    2) Father; biological father.

    3) Heterosexual Married Mother; call him Dad to him and others out of social obligation; refer to him by his first name in private and with my wife. Feels like a form a Stockholm Syndrome.

    #2681
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
    Participant

    By the way you have a match here on DonorChildren! @cbratbyrudd @kenzyg14 congrats it looks like you are siblings! I simply searched the Members page and saw your ID matched. Make sure you DNA test to confirm.

    #2680
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
    Participant

    @kenzyg14 I DNA tested on 23andMe, FTDNA, and Ancestry as well as uploaded my raw data for free to GedMatch.com. I want to encourage you to do the same. It is very important you are on all three databases as your matches may test on any one of them. I tested with 23andMe back in 2012/13 timeframe when it was $300 and health reports were standard with the test. Since then the stupid CDC/FDA banned their health reports analytics as part of their service due to not having approved it. For me personally it was very important for me just like you. Everything it told me was spot on down to my eye color, hair texture, type of ear way, eating habits, athletic abilities, as well as risks for things like heart disease, alzheimers, gall stones, alcoholism, drug reaction, carrier traits….etc. Something else to consider is even if you got a DNA companies statistical analysis it is not fool-proof and nothing beats real family history knowledge. Health history changes over the lifetime of an individual and is often multi-generational. Some genes even skip generations. Any talk about a ‘donors’ clean bill of health is crap hogwash to make the buyer feel warm and fuzzy and to boost the banks bottom line. It is logically false to say a 21 year old is healthy so your kid is healthy not to mention it’s all based on that persons honesty and actual knowledge of family health history. I would recommend just testing on all three and some day they will lift the ban on 23andMe and you will have reports. You need to be on all three for matches. 23andMe is the largest database of the three. I found my father through a 2-3 cousin match on 23andMe. That lead me on a long journey meeting family members, getting family trees and history, and after a couple years of internet, phone, person-to-person trips, DNA analysis, and a bit of destiny I found my father. I can’t say it ended well but the sleepless nights up late searching the internet helplessly are over. A lot of the missing holes in my identity were filled. Much of the family has been open armed even giving my sister and I heirlooms. My father has not been opened but continues to shut the door in my face. My half-sibs are very broken people suffering from their childhood’s. My half-brother recently reached out after 2 years of silence. Just get ready for a lot of stones to turn over and unexpected things you’ll find. It isn’t easy but it is totally all worth it. And any siblings you find later you will be working for them to in everything you do. Please make sure you buy DNA tests through DonorChildren links so this wonderful site stays free and open for others to join and benefit from a community of support and finding they family through matching tools. Make sure you also create Groups on here for your clinic, ID, etc. and also search the Members page periodically for matches. I wish you the best in your search!

    #2507
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    wmdoran
    Participant

    @cchipps @ttbies Just in case you didn’t know you can send member to member private messages on DonorChildren.

    #2505
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
    Participant

    @tglkdsbdh I found out the truth at 25 after asking since about age 12. I would HIGHLY recommend telling ASAP. The older the worse it will be especially after adolescence. I disagree with @cchipps in that it won’t matter as long as your husband was loving towards them. My social dad was a loving dad but I never felt close to him in a father/son sort of way and never really identified with him or any of his family members. When I knew he wasn’t my father I actually felt a weird sense of relief. Him on the other hand cannot seem to accept I am not his son in that he still fantisizes that I actually am and says weird things like my kids look like him. Delusional thinking REALLY irritates me. When I found out I was most heart broken realizing I had been abandoned by my biological father and that my parents were part of that choice to remove me from my family and by purchasing me like an product/object/pet. It is a kind of betrayal. I can’t speak for how your kids will feel but that has been my experience. No matter the scenario that plays out you must tell the truth. No real relationship can be built on a foundation of lies. For their own human dignity and rights as a human beings they should know WHO THEY ARE. My mother, unfortunately, refuses to acknowledge my needs as a human being and our relationship has suffered a lot due to her stubborn unwillingness to think beyond her own delusional mind set and continually putting me in a box, calling me names like ‘negative’ or ‘black box’ or to ‘just get over it’ or ‘I wish you never knew’. She doesn’t acknowledge half of who I am or allow me to identify with that side. I think like my father (bio) she is sociopathic as she does not seem to be able to show empathy. I did find my father and paternal family through my DNA. It was a hard process but I wouldn’t trade the knowledge I now have for anything. Unfortunately, my father rejected me as did my two half-siblings from his second marriage. I would love to be in relationship with them and my living grand mother and aunt but it seems I won’t be. I have settled to be content with the cousins that have been open armed and hope that I connect with at least some of my rumored 500+ produced siblings from my father.

    #2479
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
    Participant

    @josie13 Thanks for your questions! My response to your questions includes my personal responses below:

    Should I choose adopted embryos as a cheaper alternative to adoption?
    – There is a chance the child may not like that they were bought. I know I don’t like that I was bought. The child will essentially be fully-adopted. There are lots of complications an adoptee has to deal with in life largely to dealing with abandonment, identity, feeling odd/different (duh), and many other issues that can and do arise often. I would recommend considering the foster to adopt option in your local area as there are so many children without homes stuck in the system and not enough foster parents out there for placements. You have to have an open mind that your heart is in service to the CHILD’S best interest and that may mean the child returns to their biological family. In the case that does not happen and parental rights are terminated you could opt to adopt if the state sees it as a good fit. In any adoption case I strongly advocate that records are not court sealed or denied the child. I even go as far to advocate that adoptees names are not changed so family trees are not falsified through birth certificates. Consider being a legal guardian. All the same legal benefits of an adoption without the falsification. Don’t expect the child to fill your void of not having your own children with your husband, nothing can ever fill that void! And a child is not supposed to serve that purpose in life to make their parents happy like a puppy.

    – Do you support 3rd party reproduction? Do you understand what that is? See this site for a quick reference to what it actually is: http://reproductivetrafficking.org/
    By using an anonymous embryo ‘donor’ you are inadvertently supporting the clinics that practice 3rd party reproduction. Do you support abortion, human trafficking, eugenics, broken kinship bonds, and intentional health risks/harm to other human beings. Those are questions to ask.

    – Assuming that there are not many siblings with an embryo ‘donation’ is a fallacy. There are many ways embryos are made. Often clinics will create pre-made embryos from ‘donated’ sperm/eggs to be available for sale packaged kind of like a Papa Murphy’s take and bake pizza. So you can see if the embryo is made of ‘donated’ sperm/eggs their sibling count could be endless. Not to mention what if either of the parents clinic hopped to make more money. Whatever you do DON’T TRUST THE CLINICS. Don’t even give them your sperm/eggs. There are the cases a couple abandons embryos after having successful conceptions. Do you want to fund and support those abandonments? Even if there is ONE sibling out in the world they will never know THAT IS TRAGIC for the offspring. Shouldn’t they have more rights than just ‘semi-open’ with their biological parents? What does that actually mean when they turn 18? What about the first, formidable 18 years? What about the relationships with their father, mother, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, and grandparents? You can see all the complications and losses an offspring faces.

    I share all these out of my own personal experience and after witnessing hundreds of other similar stories in my time and work in the 3rd party reproduction world including this site. I am ‘donor’ conceived and it sucks. I know many adoptees feel the same loss of identity, family, and feel less than human being abandoned and then pressured to fit the mold of their adopted parents for their personal pleasure.

    I hope that helps give you perspective. Thanks for listening. I am sorry that you and your husband might be infertile due to his sperm. I can only say that suffering in this world can be a beautiful thing if you embrace it and that 3rd party reproduction is not an end to your suffering but an extension and escalation of it. You are by far ahead of 95% of intended parents considering these options by the fact that you took time to think, empathize, and ask the questions. I am confident you will make the right decision.

    Feel free to write anytime.

    #2471
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
    Participant

    Hi Josie,

    I am ‘donor’ conceived. I found out at 25 the truth of my conception that my mom went to a university and paid $50 a pop to make me from a man who paid his way through medical school with his sperm. The word ‘donor’ doesn’t sit well with me. In fact, most the INDUSTRY is purely for profit and anonymity is for the convenience of intended parents and the ‘donors’ making a killing off selling their children. Thankfully through DNA and the Internet I found my father and likely have over 500 siblings I’ll never be able to know. My human rights were stripped from me at my conception and I continually feel like I am the object my parents bought. Before I found my family I struggled a lot with my identity and spend countless hours and dollars to find them. Since finding them I have had to deal with the rejection of my family but at least I know who they are and why I am the way I am. We are more similar than the social dad that raised me and his family. Genetics are powerful. We are naturally supposed to be raise in our biological family. Trading your loss of children with your husband for adopted children with 3rd parties. The same loss you two may feel in your inability to conceive and procreate you will be passing onto your child in the void/loss of their family/identity, health information (always changing in family), and right to know their ethnic heritage, siblings, parent, grandparents, aunts, uncles… Another thing to consider is the child may feel like a purchased object. By buying embryos you are supporting a HUGE multi-billion dollar profitable and unregulated industry trafficking humans. Some people out there have coined the embryos as ‘Snowflake’ babies. As a DCP I find that phrase offensive, but beyond that you would be support the murder of frozen embryos as their siblings are likely left behind to be sold to other families or thrown in the trash.

    I hope that helps give you perspective. My obvious advice is to NOT DO IT. If it didn’t matter others and I wouldn’t care. Being told late in life would not have changed my struggles and how I feel. It would have only made the damage to relationships less severe. Liken it to cheating on your spouse and not telling him for 20 years. There’s never a good time to tell someone that you betrayed them.

    I encourage you to consider foster care and/or foster to adopt. There are so many children without homes and often unable to even be placed due to lack of foster homes. They are like the old dogs in the pound nobody wants and that might have past trauma and issues that will be difficult…but they need love. Always fight for OPEN records not court sealed and respect the child’s right to WHO THEY ARE. Don’t just put them in a box of WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO BE…they will never be that and the pressure to be that will be detrimental to their well-being.

    Thanks for posting and being open to input from others so you are making an INFORMED decision…you are ahead of 99% of the rest! And thanks for listening to me.

    #2441
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
    Participant

    That’s awesome to hear. You can have him (when you narrow him down) test on 23andMe.com for $99. That will confirm your match. I bought a test for a 1st cousin once removed. What I did was create a profile for her with her email address and bought a test that way and had it shipped to my house. Then I send the kit to her in the mail for her to spit and send it back to 23andMe in the pre-paid box. I think I needed her address and email to do that. If he doesn’t want to give you that you could just offer to pay for it and figure it out another way. Hope that helps.

    #2439
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
    Participant

    @dotty Wow! Congrats on that discovery. Similar situations occur if you matched a half-sibling and it might say ‘grandfather’/’grandmother’ because the % shared is the same. Here is a good reference link for DNA percentages and what matches they could be: https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-ca/articles/202907170-Average-percent-DNA-shared-between-relatives.

    Given the age gap with you and your uncle that makes sense. Was your father a medical student? If so you could go to the medical school and find alumni pictures in yearbooks or the med school hallways and find out which brother of your uncle’s it was using his last name. There also may be family trees online that have all the brothers listed and you could do searches on each of them and try to narrow it down. If I were you I think I would write each of them all at once, but individually, not as a group. Be open and honest about who you are, your intentions, desires, what led you to them, and a little bit about yourself. Tell them you would like to know your family and open to any relationships as well as appreciating any family history they will share. I hope for your sake they are warm and loving and welcome you with open arms. I have had both in my situation; rejection by my father/siblings but open arms with cousins.

    I would recommend writing them a hand-written letter and sending snail mail with pictures and email/phone if you can find their addresses. Leave off your return address. In my case my half-brother made death threats and my paternal family members turned out to have mental problems. In a bad case like that discretion is your friend. You also want to be open enough to build trust. It’s really your call how you approach them, just be careful and try to stay optimistic. Provide them an email address to contact you. If you choose to contact via email consider making an anonymous email account that is not your personal one you use daily to protect yourself.

    I would offer the DNA test like you said but also be clear you have found them through a confirmed DNA match with your uncle. You could consider contacting half-siblings through Facebook, but often Facebook messages goes to the ‘Other’ inbox and they’ll never see it. If you can find them through other social media sites that maybe be more successful. I would consider waiting to contact them until you make attempts and hear back from your father. If you don’t hear anything then reach out to possible half-siblings. You don’t want to give them false information if you don’t have to, but if one of the men comes forward then you can contact the half-siblings (their ‘natural’ kids) more confidently and thoughtfully.

    Anyways, hope that helps and good job! I saw on your profile you have not yet tested on 23andMe.com…you should! It’s the largest DNA database out there. You can also download your raw DNA and upload to the free GEDmatch.com. Buy your 23andMe test through a DonorChildren link to help support this free site at no extra cost! You should be on all the sites available to make yourself available to matches wherever they may be.

    Keep us in the loop on your story and thanks for sharing!!

    #2431
    Profile photo of wmdoran
    wmdoran
    Participant

    Wow! A year and a half later and you are about to find your father. Congratulations and keep us updated! I’m sure they will help you and if nothing else can provide you with enough information you could piece together a family tree online.

    #2413
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    wmdoran
    Participant

    @dlweerstra To answer another question you asked that I missed in my last comment…the DNA sites will put your DNA on their own database for life. You can download your Raw Data from 23andMe and upload for free to GedMatch.com as well if you want to be there too. Hope that makes sense.

    #2412
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    wmdoran
    Participant

    @dlweerstra I am responding to your profile update you posted that I saw on my activity feed. You wrote:

    “OK still have questions regarding how to get the DNA testing done. Do I need to register my son & daughter on donorchildren.com and then order a kit for each of them after I register them? How does the kit work – do they send me directions then we have to send the information back to them and then they down load the results on various sites? Or do I upload it somehow to varios sites? Just don’t know how to start or if I can do it al on my log on on donorchilden? Should I also register each of them on the Donor Sibling web site & would I be able to get the DNA results onto that site as well? Just so confused and technically challeneged!”

    Anyone can click on the links on DonorChildren and buy tests there, not necessary to first register on DonorChildren. DonorChildren gets paid if you buy through their links at no extra cost to you. However, if your kids want to register they should and connect with others! The sites you purchase DNA tests from will send you a kit in the mail with a pre-labeled shipping box to return your DNA sample. There are instructions with the package so you will figure it out. By joining DonorChildren you and your kids can post about your ‘donor’ on your Profile, by creating Groups, and connect to others from the same Clinic to make connections faster. Don’t waste your money on the Donor Sibling Registry. Half the people on their you can’t contact cause they haven’t kept up as paying members. The data you enter on DonorChildren will be searchable online just like on the DSR but this site is free and people are sure to join since it does not cost them a dime. Feel free to comment back if you have any more questions!

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